106. Developing the Divine Attribute of Suffering with April Price

Intro [00:00:00] Episode 106. Developing the Divine Attribute of Suffering with April Price.

Intro [00:00:10] Welcome to Latter Day Life Coaches, the podcast where each episode is a conversation between me, Heather Rackham and one of my amazing coach colleagues. Each coach here is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and a highly trained, experienced life coach making a great impact in the lives of their clients. And together, we have one main goal, helping you live your best life no matter what. You ready for this conversation with the coach? Here we go.

Intro [00:00:45] Often when we talk about God and becoming more like him, we dwell on emotions or attributes that are positive and feel good feelings like love, charity, understanding and patience. We seldom focus on emotions like anger, frustration, jealousy and hate. Somewhere in our earthly learning, we have come to believe that God doesn’t feel those things. And so if we feel them, then we are doing something wrong and are in some way bad. Coach April Price is on the podcast today talking about how the exact opposite is true. It is not that God is sitting in a constant state of love and happiness while never feeling negative emotion. What he is actually doing is feeling all the negative emotion and then consciously choosing the love, the understanding, and the patience through his agency. One of our greatest gifts from God is the ability to grow, and growth requires us to be able to feel negative emotion and still choose love. Still choose to move forward. Still believe we are good. When we can accept that feeling. Negative emotions is normal, we can stop believing that we are doing life wrong and start to realize that we are actually living the plan of God. As April will show you, the plan of God and our purpose here on Earth was never to learn how to avoid negative emotion, but to embrace it and learn from it. It is the way to navigate this life more successfully and more importantly, to become like God Himself.

Heather [00:02:16] Welcome to the podcast today everybody. I am excited to be joined by Coach April Price. I actually just got to hear April speak at a live event and it was so fantastic. I’m excited for you guys to just get a glimpse of her today. April, before we get started, though, will you please introduce yourself for us?

April [00:02:34] Yes, thank you for having me. I’m so happy to be here. My name is April Price. I am a life coach. I’ve been certified since 2019 and I coach LDS Christian faith based clients who love God and want to thrive in their lives. And I also have a podcast called the “100% Awesome” Podcast, and I just love all of this work. It changed my life and yeah, I’m just really happy to be here.

Heather [00:03:05] Oh, I am so happy to have you. And I think what you said that you coach women of faith who you know 100%. Believe in Christ and want a life that’s thriving. The interesting thing is I think we just assume that because we believe in Christ, a lot of times, that life’s just going to be good and we’re going to thrive. And though, you know, there is some we could, you know, bring some validity to that point, usually there’s a we have to do a lot more work than just believe in Christ to have our wonderful life.

April [00:03:38] I just think it’s important to to recognize that Christ is going to save every one of us from the fall. Right? But while we’re here, we’re still experiencing the fall. We’re still experiencing everything that happens in the Telestial kingdom. We still have death. We still have disease. We still have lots of negative emotion. And of course, Christ is the answer to all of that in the end. But it’s just believing in him doesn’t turn your fall into the sin into heaven, right? It just. Yeah, none of us are going to, you know, out believe, out faith, out choose, out earn, out work, out achieve the fall like that would destroy the point of why all of us are here. And so, yes, Christ is the answer and he is our consolation and he is our hope and he is the comfort. But while we are here, that belief isn’t there to, like, help us avoid every experience of the fall.

Heather [00:04:39] Yeah. And. And that fall can feel.

April [00:04:42] Yeah.

Heather [00:04:42] Pretty hard. Yes. And that and, you know, I think it’s funny that you say that, you know, you talk about the fall because like for me, yeah, that freefall feeling when I imagine somebody falling like my kids like to jump off high things, you know, into the water and I hate it. That freefall feeling is the stuff my nightmares are made of. And so imagining that feeling of that is it to me very well exemplifies like.

April [00:05:11] What you feel your parent is.

Heather [00:05:13] Just like, yep, this is hard.

April [00:05:15] Yeah. But I always think about even the first night out of the garden and she was just like, Now, how am I going to put this move? I made everybody’s phone and I got like, What do we do now? And I think, yeah, you’re right. It would have been a shock, right? Yeah.

Heather [00:05:30] Mm hmm. And, like, what did I do? I’m sure there was some of that. What did I.

April [00:05:35] Do? It was so easy before. Yeah. Yeah. And every one of us, I think, has that experience as a human. We all signed up to come. We all chose to come. And yet there are moments where all of us think, What did I do right? Because it’s just more challenging than we ever could have imagined without having had the experience. Yeah.

Heather [00:05:56] Yeah, for sure. And though most of us are spending it, we spend most of our life trying to run from the feelings of falling, right?

April [00:06:05] Yes.

Heather [00:06:05] And when we get caught up in that, which most of us do, because that’s what we spend most of our life doing, we miss out on so much. So I’m curious. I just want to talk about that. There is so much more than just the happy emotions that we think that we want to go after all the time.

April [00:06:24] Yeah. And I think it’s easy to believe that, like, that should be the pursuit of our life, that the pursuit should be happiness, it should be positive emotion, that if we can design our life and make all the right choices and have everything lined up perfectly, that somehow we can avoid these negative emotions. And I think, like unconsciously or not, like most of us are trying to do that when we make decisions, just simple decisions, where we’re really evaluating which one do I think is going to make me happier? Right. And I’m I’m not I’m not saying that that’s wrong. It’s just you just just know that instinctively all of us are trying to avoid as much negative emotion as possible. But that wasn’t how this earth life was designed. It was designed with opposition in all things. And we all know that. Right? Like, it makes sense logically, but I think secretly we believe, like, yeah, there’s opposition in all things. But if I do this right or if I’m good enough, maybe I can swing in a little closer to like 60/40 or 75/25. And I don’t have to have like 50% negative. Right.

Heather [00:07:31] Yes.

April [00:07:32] And not only is that hard, because we’re always chasing the good and running from the bad, which, you know, creates its own kind of stress and pressure. But it’s also really hard because we associate negative emotion with not living right. We associate it with like a lack of obedience or a mistake or that, like if we were good, we wouldn’t suffer as much. You know? And I think this idea gets perpetuated just by the like simple idea. You get really early on that if, like you live right, you’ll be blessed. And then we associate that. We connect that with happiness. That blessings. Happiness or.

Heather [00:08:11] Happiness.

April [00:08:12] And. And really and truly like blessings are the growth that all of us came to get. The greatest blessing God has to give you is the capacity to become like him, and that requires growth. And so, like, if I could tell your listeners anything is just that when we believe that our negative emotion indicates that we’re doing it wrong, we create so much extra suffering on top of that negative emotion.

Heather [00:08:38] Yeah, because we have this little sneaky underlying belief, what you just alluded to, that we believe that we are going to get what we deserve. Like we’re going to get good for good and we’re going to get bad for bad. You know, we’ve done something bad. And Adam Miller has has written such a fantastic book. It’s called Original Grace. I don’t know if if you read it, but it’s amazing. And it talks so much about that belief that we have that, you know. And it’s just kind of this underlying. It’s belief, actually, that totally drives us to think some pretty hard things about ourselves and gets us stuck in a lot of ways.

April [00:09:17] Yes, absolutely. And like, I think it’s you know, it’s good that it’s not that way because we got what he deserved. We would be in trouble, every one of us, right. Like none of us deserve all that we have. But, you know, none of us really. We can’t earn it. We can’t earn grace. We can’t earn our way back. And yet, like, we sort of think that we can. Or even if I can’t earn grace, I can earn happiness, and I can earn the blessings that will create happiness. And if , if I’m not happy, then maybe I haven’t done the right things. And this is just such a painful way to see your Earth life experience.

Heather [00:09:54] Yeah, it’s really good that you separated those two, that blessings. They don’t mean happiness. They’re not the same thing.

April [00:10:02] I know, I know.

Heather [00:10:03] Really hard to separate those things, but, gosh, if we could do that. Yeah, let’s save ourselves a whole lot of struggle.

April [00:10:11] Yes. And how I think about it is like, okay, well, what are blessings? It’s the things that God has to give me. And what does he have to give me is the life He has. Well, the life he has involves not less suffering, but more because he has more children who suffer. Right? And so he’s saying, if you want to be like me, you need to learn how to suffer. I mean, that’s what Christ is teaching us. Like we we’re all asked to follow him. He felt the most suffering. And so what we all need to develop is not trying to, like, be so good that we never suffer, but instead get good at suffering, get good at feeling bad. I believe it’s a divine attribute that all of us can develop and that this earth life like it, provides the perfect place to practice developing that divine attribute. The reason Christ could do what He did wasn’t because He had avoided suffering. It was because he knew how he could hold any emotion, he could hold any feeling and not quit and not give up and not run and not avoid it and not need it to be different. He could just sit with it and hold it. And this is why I admire him, because I know how hard it is to sit with negative emotion and sit with pain and not want it to be different. And so I just think it’s like this tool that Heavenly Father has given us to become like him. And that is actually the tool that like the for The Fall negative emotion that exists, the 5050, the opposition, that’s the tool for us to develop this divine attribute. And most of us are like either. You know, sort of shaming ourselves when we feel bad and making ourselves wrong for the tool itself, or we’re just so avoiding it that we don’t get to practice developing that divine attribute. So I know it’s kind of a hard sell to say.

Heather [00:12:15] Who is just sitting here thinking that is the worst sales pitch ever. Right?

April [00:12:19] Like no one’s going to no.

Heather [00:12:21] One wants to hire anybody. That’s like, yeah, come to me. I’m just going to teach you how to suffer.

April [00:12:27] Yeah. It’s not that we want it yet, but we do want the skill. Because the truth is, our life contains plenty of suffering. Our life contains 50% negative experiences, negative emotion, and we want a greater capacity to be able to do that, to feel that. And as we do, we become more like our heavenly parents. We start to develop that divine characteristic and like grow that potential.

Heather [00:12:59] Yeah. And it’s going to be here. Right. We all know that. We’ve all tried to run from the pain. We were all trying to run from hurt and anger. And it’s not going anywhere. Yeah, it’s. It’s here to stay. And so we might as well.

April [00:13:16] Right. How do we feel it? And then how do I choose what I want, even in the face of this emotion? So, Christ, if you go back to the perfect example, he felt that negative emotion and he didn’t choose resentment. He chose love. He didn’t choose betrayal or hurt or anger. He chose love. He was feeling the emotion. And then he chose to act in love. And this is what we’re all going to get good at is just like feeling that emotion and then making the choice we want to make.

Heather [00:13:48] Because choosing love and even though we’re sitting here talking about trying to figure out how to deal and live through with negative emotions when we choose love, even though everything else around us hurts and fills hard, that is where the peace, that is where the solace is, even if it kind of feels crappy. Everywhere else you can find this. That’s the gift you give to yourself.

April [00:14:12] Yeah, and that’s the reason for it.

Heather [00:14:14] Yeah.

April [00:14:15] Right. Like, yeah, the reason Christ could do it was because of love. How do you hold that much pain? Through love?

Heather [00:14:25] So what’s the difference, do you think, between pain and suffering?

April [00:14:28] I’m not sure. And I don’t know if it really matters because, you know, they’re just they’re just words. But I do know it’s one of the ways that we can kind of talk about it is to categorize our negative emotion as pain. Right. Every time we have a negative emotion, it is like it is a kind of emotional pain. And I think we can add to that pain or add to our suffering. If you want to think about it like that, we can add to our suffering when we tell ourselves we’re wrong for our experience, right? It’s just really hard to feel bad if we’re like making ourselves wrong for that, shaming ourselves for that. Like here I am, you know, having an earth life experience and like. It’s going to contain both emotions. And, you know, when I say like, okay, I must be doing it wrong, there’s a whole nother level of suffering that that we don’t need to be doing. Yeah.

Heather [00:15:24] That. And I also think that suffering is what happens when we experience pain without giving it any sort of meaning without.

April [00:15:33] I love that.

Heather [00:15:33] Recognizing that there is some growth potential here for me, but I love that our low rate of that.

April [00:15:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it doesn’t mean like I have to see it as positive. You don’t have to see that pain as positive, but it is productive.

Heather [00:15:48] Yes, that’s a good point. That. Yeah, that’s a good it’s good to see that differently there. Yeah. Like we are wired for progress. We all want to just evolve to this higher level. And so when we can look at that way as something being productive.

April [00:16:05] Yes. It just adds.

Heather [00:16:07] To that up to the pain.

April [00:16:09] Yes. And I love that you said that we’re all wired that way. Right. That’s that’s because of our genetics, our eternal genetics. Right? We are the beings of heavenly parents who continually progress, who are constantly expanding, who are growing in, you know, light and knowledge and capacity and love and everything. And so that that same spark is in each one of us.

Heather [00:16:35] And there’s research to back that up. I love always when I can find things like research and studies to back up what I believe, you know, in our religious doctrines. And we do we know that we’re always striving for progress. And we’ve been taught that from the time we’re children in yeah. In our, in our religious theology. But there is the research to that then does say that people are wired to progress, to transcend, you know, a lot of Maslow’s work and how we know his hierarchy is actually different than what he wanted it to be. I’ve done some reading, but it ultimately is to show that that’s what we’re all after. Like we need the foundations in our life so that we can continue to grow and progress. That’s what everybody is wired for.

April [00:17:19] Yeah. The other day I was talking to client about this and I was saying, you know, like, my dog has no desire to, like, progress, right? Oh, yes. He’s just like, what’s for dinner tonight? And are we going for a walk? But he has no ambition beyond that. And it’s really true that this is what separates us. Yeah, you know, I love it.

Heather [00:17:42] And if we’re talking about dogs, like I have a little lap dog, which I never thought I have, but I do have this little dog now. And like her whole purpose of her being is literally to, like, want to sit on my lap. She just loves that. Like, she is living her potential life. She’s living what she was created for. And yes, gosh, we all get to do that all the time, right? You and I are potential isn’t just to sit on somebody’s lap? But, you know, if we could find just as much joy in the efforts, the pursuit of that, we would be so lucky. Yeah. Yeah. To be the happy little lapdog. Yeah. So it discomfort really is like it’s part of the plan. Yeah, it’s there. How, how do we get better at feeling it?

April [00:18:29] Yeah. So what’s, what’s amazing is Heavenly Father gave us everything we need to be able to get better at this and to to practice this divine attribute. Right? The only things you need are your agency, which each of us have. And a body. Right? And you all have one of those. So, like, you use your agency to choose that we’re choosing our experience through our thoughts. And I think sometimes, especially as, you know, you learn about thought work and you learn that like how I feel is going to be created by what I think. And I get to choose my thoughts sometimes we think, and therefore that means we should always choose to be happy. And I think that it’s really important to recognize that like, no, sometimes I exercise my agency to feel bad, right? Even God uses his exercise, his agency sometimes to feel bad. So when he looks at us and he watches us suffer, he uses his agency to feel bad, to weep, to cry, to to mourn with us, to have his heart broken like us. And so I think it’s just important to recognize that, like, that doesn’t make you. I’ve said it a hundred times. Doesn’t make you bad. It makes you more like him. When you choose your agency to feel that negative emotion. And then. All of the feeling that needs to happen happens inside your body. We’re here on Earth. We’re having an Earth life experience. We’re having an experience in a body, but we’re mostly some. Well, I shouldn’t say mostly. Sometimes we’re just disconnected from our body and we’re up in our heads and we’re just always thinking our way through life and trying to, like, solve our negative emotion up in our head and, like, solve our problems up in our head. And I, I think it’s so important to remember that, like, your body was designed to be able to process negative emotion. That is a physical experience. What happens when you have a feeling is your thought is translated to a chemical signal in your body and you’re having a physical experience, something there’s energy in your body, you’re having a vibration or or a charge or some heat or some tightness or a twinge. We all feel emotions differently, but they happen in the body. And so I think one of the best ways that you can learn to feel bad is to actually feel it, to get in your body and describe it to yourself, to try to find how it feels inside of you. You need your body to be able to have the experience of sorrow, have the actual experience of grief, of of jealousy, of anger, of all those things, just like Christ did. There’s this awesome quote by Stephen Robinson in Believing Christ and I don’t have it with me, so I won’t do it justice. But he just talks about that these things must be suffered, that they can’t just be wiped away or magic the way that they actually must be experienced and suffered. Like Christ had a physical experience with all of that negative emotion. And so the better we get at our physical experience of the emotion, the more capacity we have to feel bad and not need to change it.

Heather [00:21:46] That sounds terrifying, like when you hear someone talk about that, right? Well, you and I have all had these conversation before and people sit there and look at us like, yeah, I don’t I don’t want to feel all those things. There’s a reason why I’m spending so much time in my head thinking about it, because I’d rather be up here than actually feeling it down here. But yeah.

April [00:22:05] It sounds much scarier than it is. Yeah. So amazing to me that like, in my head, it’s a million times worse than in my body. In my body it’s very simple and actually not as painful as I’m imagining it to be, the actual physical experience of it.

Heather [00:22:26] So when I mentioned earlier that I got to hear you speak live recently and and I can’t remember the emotion that you said that you feel on the right side of your body. But what was anyway, I bring this up because I’d love for you to share that, because I think it really tells people it helps us. It gives us a good picture and understanding of what it kind of look like, what it looks like to feel something in our body and to recognize it and not be so afraid of it.

April [00:22:52] Yeah. So the better you get at this, the more you will understand how your body processes emotion. So and it usually does it in the same way. And you can kind of create an emotional map in your body where you’re like, you just know, Oh, okay, I know what that one is, right? So what I think I was talking about on the right side, in my on the right side of my chest is where I feel overwhelmed. And it’s just like a hot little throb on that right side of my chest. And I just feel it like kind of pumping away there when I ever I feel overwhelmed. Sometimes I can get a little tightness if it’s really intense on the back of my neck as well. But I just like go to that place in my body and I look at it and I watch it and I just see that little throb. And after I’ve processed it, then I can decide, okay, how do I want to think about this and move on with my day? The emotions in your body just like want to be experienced. Mm hmm.

Heather [00:23:40] Thank you for sharing that. I learned something interesting about myself. And as you do pay attention to that, you do start to see things and think, Oh, that’s so interesting. Which helps actually dissolve a little bit of the I think the pain that’s can be associated with things. When you start thinking about, Oh, this is where I’m feeling it, it kind of helps everything subside. But I was experiencing for the first time in a really long time, a really anxious, inducing situation. I felt anxious. I felt disappointed. All the things and my the back of my ears, right behind my ears kept burning. And I kept thinking, what is this? Why are my ears burning? And I had never paid attention to it because I had not really been adept at monitoring my feelings. And I started recognizing that, oh, you know what? That’s what I feel. That’s where I feel like intense anxiousness for me is because they just burn. Anyway, I just think it’s interesting for listeners to even consider what are the things that they’re feeling, where do they feel them and and just start paying attention to it.

April [00:24:47] It’s so interesting because the pain of resistance, like the pain of trying not to feel, is so much worse than the actual. Physical experience.

Heather [00:24:54] Oh, it’s so true. It’s. It’s like today. I had some. There was a project I needed to work on, and I just didn’t want to do it. And it was just sitting down and taking, like, the first step. Yes, that was the hardest thing. And then I was like, Oh, this is so easy. I just got it down. But it was drudgery, trying to get myself there. But it’s the same with experiencing our emotions, right? It’s just, oh, I don’t want to pay attention to this, but if we just will.

April [00:25:18] All the time all the time, I have the experience all the time. And I just remind myself, April, like, we can just feel bad. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I know how to feel bad. Okay, drop into my body instead of trying to push it. It’s just so like that creates its own kind of anxiety, trying to push it away.

Heather [00:25:35] Yeah. Okay. So as you work with your clients, I know you are helping them frequently with learning how to feel the discomfort. What have you seen change for your clients when they have been able to embrace that rather than run from it?

April [00:25:54] Yeah. So I think the biggest thing and this was the case for me too when I found coaching, but just the release of the shame, I can’t tell you how bad we’re making ourselves feel for feeling bad. And so when you can release the shame and you start to recognize this isn’t because I’m a bad person, this is because I’m a fall. And being in a Telesco world, it’s a completely different experience to recognize. Like I’ve been telling myself, that like, I’m doing it wrong, I’m ungrateful, I’m unfaithful, I’m just a negative person. Like I’ve been telling myself these really painful stories. And so when my clients recognize, like, Oh, this is actually this is just a part of our life and actually a really important part like their shame just can can disappear, can go away, and they can just, first of all, feel how they’re feeling and then move on and decide how they want to feel, what they want, what changes, if any, that they want to create in their life. Then I think just like releasing that, for me, it was just decade’s worth of like shame and thinking like, what kind of a person am I that like has so much and feels so bad? And I just, you know, I just think so many of us think like there is no good reason for me to feel so bad. And actually, I mean, there are a lot of reasons, a lot of good reasons why we feel bad. But the number one reason is, is because God designed it that way. And you need to stop making yourself wrong for the plan of God. And I just think, like that release is so incredible, especially for people of faith, because every time they feel bad, they make themselves wrong in one way or another. And then the other thing I think that is amazing, I was just talking to a client yesterday is just the incredible confidence they have to experience anything that’s coming in their life. Right. I no longer have to worry about choices. Somebody else is going to make her what could happen to me or what’s in the future. Because I know I have the capacity to feel anything that happens and that it’s just going to be a matter of like processing that negative emotion and deciding what’s next. And it’s just an incredible confidence to recognize, like, I don’t have to be scared that I don’t need everything to line up perfectly in order to, like, ensure that I’m going to be okay. You just know, no matter what, I’m going to be okay. And this just brings incredible peace and confidence to to your life instead of, like, always worried about what could go wrong. You don’t have to anymore. Right. And so I think those are two things. And the other thing that I would just say to your audience is just like, you know, when we think we shouldn’t feel bad, it’s hard to ask for help. And so many of us are like just suffering alone because we don’t want anybody to know that we’re feeling bad because we’re not supposed to be feeling bad, but we’re not. We’re wrong for feeling bad. And so then we pretend that everything’s fine instead of like really being in a place where, like, no, guess what? Everybody in this room feels bad half the time, okay? And now we can ask each other for help and whether that’s true, a coach or a friend or a minister or whatever. Like, we can put down the pretense and ask for the things that we need and ask for the support and, for somebody to mourn with you. And you don’t have to, like, be pretending all the time.

Heather [00:29:25] Oh. The freedom that comes with that. Yeah. Having to pretend. Yeah. And I think the freedom that comes from releasing yourself of all of that shame, it opens the door for us to have an even better relationship with our heavenly parents and with our Savior.

April [00:29:40] Absolutely because how can you kneel down and pray and tell him what’s on your heart if you think you’re wrong for what’s on your heart? Yeah. And you’re like, okay, I shouldn’t feel bad, but I really need to talk to you about this. Like we’re not going to go to God.

Heather [00:29:53] Yeah. Yeah.

April [00:29:54] Right. I feel like it’s the thing that really changed my relationship with God. I felt like I was always just trying to, like, be the good student to him and just, like, get high marks and, like, you know, you know, never feel bad. And I feel like it’s just, like, to really, like, open up to like, no, I’m a fallen being and I need help and like, to really open up to his grace. Like, it just changed my relationship with him completely. Like, he doesn’t think I’m wrong for having this negative emotion. He put it in my life so that I could grow and so that I could reach my divine potential. So I could become like him who can hold infinite amounts of it. And he doesn’t think I’m wrong for it. In fact, he wants to comfort me when I’m in it. And it’s just it will change your relationship with God and with your Savior. Like, I can’t even tell you how much more awe and wonder and like reverence I have for Christ, because I understand now a little bit better just how strong and good and powerful He is that he can hold all of that negative emotion, just how much capacity he has developed, just like who he is to be able to hold all of that and feel all of that. And it will it will really, if you can open up to the negative experiences in your life and make that right in your life, it will open up a relationship with Christ that you’ve never had before.

Heather [00:31:22] Iv’e appreciated this conversation so much. I feel such a I don’t know there’s almost like this renewed enthusiasm to just experience things a little bit. Yeah. And try to have a little bit different perspective about the things that I feel.

April [00:31:38] Yes, exactly. Good.

Heather [00:31:40] Thank you so much, April.

April [00:31:41] My gosh, thanks for having me.

Heather [00:31:43] Oh, it’s such a treat for me. Can you please share with people where they can find more of you?

April [00:31:48] Yeah.

Heather [00:31:49] I know you shared. You have your podcast, but tell us tell us.

April [00:31:52] How you can find me on Instagram at our April price or I have a website Aprilpricecoaching.com and yeah, you can find me there.

Heather [00:32:02] And we will link to all of that in the show notes and I appreciate you so much and thanks for having me and thanks for all of our listeners for being here and hope that you can look at pain. In your body or my body, but the brain, the things that we experience a little bit differently. And yeah, see, health is a tool for you. Yeah. Thank you. Hey, we just wanted to thank you for spending part of your day here with us at latter day life coaches and being part of this conversation. Share this with your friends so that you can have a conversation with them on this topic as well. And as always, subscribe. So you don’t miss a single episode. Have a good one, my friends.